Talk:Belly dance

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Misleading citations in the opening paragraph

Misleading citation, and probable WP:OR (interpretation), in the opening paragraph of the article. The description "Arabic expressive dance" is not accurately representing the two sources cited. The first source (this one) doesn't mention the term at all, it just indiscriminately refers to the entire region as "Arab", and then describes the wide range of different choreographies of dances in the region performed by different ethnic groups, all, therefore, under the section titled "Arab Dance"; the opening paragraph on page 9 states that the section title refers to "a broad and varying folk landscape", and states: "sources cover much of Lebanese, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey, Palestine, Upper Egypt, and North Africa". So we even have to be careful not to interpret the term "Arab" here. On page 11, which is the one cited in the article, the source is not discussing "belly dance", it merely mentions it in the statement that: "regional arts encompassed more than belly dance", and in the statement that its practice increased in North America due to immigrants. Then this source, in a new section titled "Global Dance", starts describing modern dances in different places in the region, which doesn't bear on the origin of belly dance; whoever put this as a citation did so poorly, and must have thought that the mere mention of the term "belly dance" justifies the citation. It is misleading to base the nomenclature "Arabic expressive dance" on that source, this is typical WP:OR (interpretation), and a misleading citation; we should stick to what's in the sources.
So what concerns us is the second source (Hammond, Andrew (2005), I corrected the year of publication, see below), which does not support the nomenclature "Arabic expressive dance" at all, it states that it is, and I quote, "especially Egyptian", and strictly says that it originated in Egypt, stating: "the Greek historian Herodotus related the remarkable ability of Egyptians to create for themselves spontaneous fun, singing, clapping, and dancing in boats on the Nile during numerous religious festivals. It's from somewhere in this great, ancient tradition of gaiety that the belly dance emerged". So, I will put strictly what is said in this second source, and refrain from any interpretations. What this second source is stating does not fit in the opening paragraph, and since it still describes it as Egyptian, there is no need for repetition, since the opening paragraph already mentions its origins. I'll put strictly what is said in this second source in the subsection "Origins and history", which is the proper place for it. I will also correct the currently inaccurate info of the citation of the book, which includes even an inaccurate title, and I will add the specific page number, the current citation is not citing a specific page; overall, the book is poorly cited, misleadingly cited, and contains inaccurate citation info. Other edits I'll make are: removing the statement "also known as Oriental dance" from the opening paragraph, since, as already mentioned in the first section of the article, it is a broader term; and I will add the Egyptian Arabic name that is used to refer specifically to the dance, with its IPA pronunciation, and its Romanization. 197.38.43.191 (talk) 02:22, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic attitudes towards belly dancing

Proposing adding an "Islamic attitudes towards belly dancing" section onto the article. Islam sets the awra(nudity) of a female slave to be the same as a man. That means that female slaves are not required to cover their hair or chests, so likely Muslim societies in the past used slaves as belly dancers. Free women on the other hand are required to cover their hair, therefore they can't perform belly dances in public. Akkad2279 (talk) 16:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support this if there are references to it. While what you say is true we don't know if belly dancing was performed in these societies. Biofase ^flame| stalk 20:59, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me

@Hammersoft There are two sabotage modifications made by the named user (Sarah Sayed). Please cancel them. and Thank you 91.186.230.52 (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At first glance, they appear to be correct. If you find sources that contradict them, then please provide. Thanks, --Hammersoft (talk) 00:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The same existing sources are certain that this is a Middle Eastern dance and the oldest thing known about it historically in the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates, as found in the article. These differences were very wide, and there is nothing to prove the origin of the dance. It is most likely that it originated in Egypt, not only Egyptian, as it is known. In all Arab countries and part of Arab culture before this, so the phrase that he is a Middle Easterner of Egyptian origin is neutral and fair in the best way, but what exists now is clearly a nationalistic trend. 91.186.230.52 (talk) 00:29, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So fix it. Anyone can edit :) --Hammersoft (talk) 00:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not good at undoing two amendments at the same time. They may also be cancelled, so it is better for a respected official to do this:). 91.186.230.52 (talk) 00:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a 'respected official', and have no more authority here than you do. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:36, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

k 91.186.230.52 (talk) 00:38, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]